Il portale si apre ai coraggiosi...
Bravi...
Sensibili...
Mi presento, il mio nome è Luigi Vampa briganti eterno, la mia presenza non è un incidente. A Roma il mio nome suona come le trombe degli angeli. Qualche cosa che volete dirmi risponderò... ma, come tutti voi sapete la mezza verità e l'altra una bugia. Chi lo sa?
Here you may find and leave all the things you need for this journey. Il gioco degli Indovinelli è aperto per tutti voi. Every word, symbol, sign, has a value as a clue. You have to be very aware. Sometimes could be a trap hidden between the lines or between the images, be aware.
Cominciamo.
Debra, what do you really see here?
Lindsay, why do you have to follow the path?
Wongmo, have you hear the stones?
Riccardo, what's between labyrinth's stones?
Michael, where's the center?
78 comentarios:
Ooh, ooh, can I play too?
Maybe I can learn something from you Luigi about getting vengeance.
Tim...you are Tim Colgan, I know about you. And of course you can learn and play but the first thing is inquiring. What do you want to know and why.?
Ask the laberinth and follow the path.
Maybe the road is straight forward to your question? What is most important: To ask or to answer?
Luigi - Te gusta Borges?
Or were you more influenced by Octavio Paz's Labyrinth?
Borges, Paz...troppo giovani...Io sono molto antico, come la pietra di Chartres, come il vento di scirocco.
Debra da qui poso vedere il tuo paese. Bello, grande, e tu una donna brava. Le pietre sono visibile ma che e fuori da la vista umana. La porta e li.
Lindsay si tu vai pian piano per il labirinto , magari tu puoi trovare la porta. Sicuri che tu la hai gia visto ma non sapevi che era la porta.
Bravo Luigi
If we walk together will we arrive together?
Luigi
Do you Foucault personally or only in books?
I'm not sure about the problem with the comments... but anyway I post the one from Lindsay that she couldn't post earlier...
Ciao,
Io ho stato distacco miei commenti e domande al sito principale...Hai visto?
Ho non ho risposto e sto non permanente di fronte alla porta? Sto aspettando tutti gli altri di essere anche pronto a iniziare il loro viaggio e suggerendo che i doni del labirinto, ike la casella nel film, appartengono a tutti noi e porterà tutti noi poter cooperare insieme per arrivarci.
Nel mio expereience con labirinti...in grado di gestire qualsiasi domanda anche "come faccio a ottenere vendetta"...a piedi il sentiero...raggiungendo il centro sarà ancora dare una risposta che serve la vita...quelli sono th eunigeniti tipi di labirinti di risposte dare
Carissimi tutti non sempre il labirinto e aperto. Questo ricordo da Foucault è veramente centrale per il nostro corso. Tutto gira e niente si muove. Capisco? Un libro irreale dice: "Sub vilis ecce sinu pretiosa recondit; Pauperies, et opes religiosa tegit" Cosa vuol dire? La prima parte dlla risposta e nascosta qui. ........Luigi Vampa
la vendetta e un arte molto fredo e sottile. Prima di tutto si bisogna sapere asppetare. Senza fretta, gelido e invisibile. Comme il vento.
Avanti, coraggio! Non abbiate paura...
'O pil e fess tir e chiù ro fil e acciajo.
Luigi
We want to move forward...we are reflecting, help us know you
Luigi:
"Questo ricordo da Foucault veramente centrale per il nostro corso."
Quale dei Foucault? Michel o Leon?
Luigi:
'O pil e Fess tir e chiu' ro fil e acciajo. => Il pelo della vulva tira più del filo d'acciaio. ???
Ho sentito dire che i napoletani erano sessista. Questo è comune?
Luigi:
Where is everyone? Today, June 21, Summer solstice. Isn't today the day to walk the labyrinth?
I am here Tim. I need help with Luigi's response on Foucault. I can get most of it but need to make sure of some things. Could you summarize?
Michael
Pendulum or Panopticon. Or both?
Did someone get trapped in their own labyrinth?
Pendulum & Panopticon supra vides omnia. La porta rimane aperta per i bravi. Hadrumetum in Tunisia, Taormina, Ostia, et altri.
Que es lo que hay en el centro?......EL PENETRAL. Un ente numinoso, misterio impronunciable, un "arrheton".
Luigi: Does Umberto Eco know what's at the center?
Nesuno conosce il centro, Umberto conosce il vero significatto dal corso scoperto in una rosa. Qui non cè il tempo. Paolo Santarcangeli conosce l introito. Si puo vedere nella sacra geometria del vortice. Anche Fibonacci e Lucca Paccioli. I antichi messicani anche conoscono il corso. Ricordatevi sole e luna oggi. Centro dei centri.
Il mio nome oggi e Luigi Vampa ma io ho tanti nomi comme il vento, la mia faccia e oggi cosi da brigante, ma io ho tanti faccie comme in due spechi incontrati insieme.
Agreed no one knows. But at least Eco knows that those who believe they know are deluded. Or perhaps are trying to delude others in order to control them. What do you think Luigi? Does this esoteric "knowledge" have any purpose other then to manipulate?
What do you think Kathy? Any other purpose then to have power over others?
Niente da fare con questa manipolazione o segreti....non si può scegliere i segreti senza vedere prima gli evidenti.
TIENEN OJOS Y NO VEN.
Il potere supra altri e niente...il potere supra ego e tutto.
"As in the tale of Icarus' wings, Daedalus is portrayed assisting in the creation of something that has subsequent negative consequences. In this case the monstrous Minotaur and its almost impenetrable lair, the labyrinth; which in turn made slaying the beast an endeavour of legendary difficulty. Thus, the concept of humility is introduced to the legend of Daedalus by the great craftsman's mistakes. The Daedalean labyrinth was defeated by a simple ball of thread that its architect had failed to consider, just as he failed to foresee the melting of the wax in Icarus' wings. The legend of Daedalus further encourages others to consider the long-term consequences of their own inventions with great care, lest they do more harm than good."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daedalus#The_Labyrinth
So Luigi. If the Minotaur is our ego (the product of our divine nature and our animal side) and religion is the labyrinth (humankind's attempt to entrap the ego) then have we not become ensnared in our own creation? Has not our own invention - religion - come to cause more harm then good? What do you think? Is this "la verita del Introito Labrix"?
Los siguientes estan en el centro, no unicamente uno Theseus, Ariadne, y el Minotaur. Estamos a proposito, en la entrada para ser bravos, en el camino para vencer y ser vencidos, en el centro para la salvacion. Es el amor que esta en el centro pero unicamente para los que vencen. El corazon es el verdadero laberinto.
Michael
Look for the Ariadne's thread, that's the only thing that will conduce from one point to another (enter-exit, in this case). Yes, I think the heart is the real labyrinth, our own self, just like Ariadne in the myth... the though the things were going to be one way and... in the end it wasn't what she expected.
Don't expect, see, perceive... The labyrinth is everything, the labyrinth is nothing.
Michel Foucault's Panopticon:
"...the design was invoked by Michel Foucault (in Discipline and Punish) as metaphor for modern "disciplinary" societies and their pervasive inclination to observe and normalise. Foucault proposes that not only prisons but all hierarchical structures like the army, schools, hospitals and factories have evolved through history to resemble Bentham's Panopticon."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon#Conceptual_history
Can we say that the labyrinth is also a panopticon? The circular structure where all can be observed from the center. Something related to that eye in the sky that miraculously appeared at the top of this web-page. Another means of control. Religion or Big brother TED or the Count again internalizing their control mechanism. Manipulating us to behave as they desire to suit their own objectives. What do you think Luigi?
En el mero centro de todos que andan para aca...si hay el mero, mero centro y deseo de todos. Estamos juntos en frente de todos y para todos.
Have anyone here solved their own mistery?
Tim
I do not think it is about manipulation or control, but more about surrender and sacrifice. The door, the path, the center are all for us to discover together...there is the fun.
Michael
From wikipedia entry on Umberto Eco's "Foucault's Pendulum":
Asked whether he had read the Brown novel ["Da Vinci Code"], Eco replied:
I was obliged to read it because everybody was asking me about it. My answer is that Dan Brown is one of the characters in my novel Foucault’s Pendulum, which is about people who start believing in occult stuff.
- But you yourself seem interested in the kabbalah, alchemy and other occult practices explored in the novel.
No. In Foucault’s Pendulum I wrote the grotesque representation of these kind of people. So Dan Brown is one of my creatures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault's_Pendulum#Comparison_with_other_writings
Yes, I totally agree with Eco in that quote...the labyrinth is a game...one with many meanings...Have you ever read the book Tim?
Michael
Haven't read it yet (it's on my list). Maybe we can discuss when I do.
And a final applause for our players:
Jaime Lubin as Conte Di Salaparuta Mordeforte.
Michael McAleer as Luigi Vampa.
Adriana Camarena as Baronessa Ninna Di Val-Taranto.
¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡DA VERO!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????
Tim are you playing Sherlock....c'est vraie?
Edmond Dantes
OK. Maybe I made a mistake. But two out of three's not bad. Sorry Adriana. I see you deserve more credit then I initially realized. Quite an impressive opera.
Hello Tim I'm Jaime and let me tell you that the Conte, La Baronessa e Luigi we are all friends from almost 30 years. We spend a lot of time togheter at university in Italy. and study almost the same . La Baronessa and I were in semiotics, and the Conte in agronomics and history and later we all in philosophy. Luigi in literature. My main project in professional life is about education, history and research in semiotics in the XVI- XVIII centuries in Mexico and we all coincide in the Archivio Vaticano where Father Delacourt is our mentor. All your presumtions are intriguing and clever.
Cordially
Jaime Lubin
Tim, of course that you know who really is Luigi Vampa.
Tim
Why how could you think I was Luigi? I mean my italian is not that good and I don't pretend to be a guide. I am only an humble player. The real Luigi is someone, I don't know who, and seems to be a friend to the Count, the Baronessa and Jamie in real life. This is play and I am just having fun, discussing life and its promises and seeking out truth.
Michael
OK. Let's go with Luigi Vampa (aka Edmond Dantes, aka Father Delacourt, aka Archibald) is the yin/yang - the whole which is greater then the sum of the parts.
btw Jaime - I get the impression that the Baronessa doesn't like me. Did I do something to offend her? Perhaps back when I was being overly passionate about promoting free speech?
Tim if you want to see in that way...ying yang...well we accept your impression. Luigi is delighted with your assumption. Really we hope to be one small part from Father Delacourt.
If you search some about the real Edmond Dantes,aka Count of Montecristo, you find a surprise. Then you could put together all the parts in order to obtain the whole.
La Baronessa likes you, sincerely. And Adriana too. And we all too. But beyond this emotional impasse, see the Italian history in the xix century. Sure that you can find something.
Yes, yes. Edmond Dantes. And Luigi Vampa, his faithful servant. I'm still waiting for my lesson on vengeance!
Well Tim the lesson start.
1. Look if theres not any other strategie that you could use instead vengeance. If yes, use it. If not......
Look the conditions of your enemy and NEVER let him know your real plans. Keep him very near from you. Study his fortress to know your wickness, and his wickness to know your fotress. Then decide to goes one step back, or one step forward, or at the same step. You can change your position when you need. Then choose your weapon in order to his wickness, and your skills. Remember David and Goliath. Make a tactics very slow, real slow.and when you have all prepared just do it. But be sure that the surprise effect is on your side. Be prepared in all during the prolegomenos, be like a thounder during the action, and be vigilant in the aftermatch. The main thing is the secret of your plan.
Later will be the second lesson.
Curious tidbit - Umberto Eco wrote an introduction to one edition of "The Count of Monte Cristo". The plot thickens.
Tim
Is a copy of that intro available? I knew Montecristo (even the name) was a part of all this, just didnt realize how much until the recent exchanges. I will do some looking also as I have time.
Michael
Haven't found the full text. But this article was informative:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/Book-Reviews/2011/0206/Classic-review-The-Count-of-Monte-Cristo
As an aside, this is one of my favorite Eco writings:
http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_mac_vs_pc.html
Tell me what you think of it Michael.
We need to play and move out of the labyrinth into the sunshine. It looks beautiful out there. Luigi, I am asking you to help us do that...the players want to play
Michael
And now the Archpoet arrives. Damn! Another Eco book I haven't read (Baudolino).
Tim
I read the Eco paper, just haven't made it to the Review page. I will as soon as possible. Eco, the Count of Montecristo, Jesuits and Brigands...an interesting collection of beings no?
Michael
Tim sure that collection is extraordinary. Did you remind Abate Faria and Father Bussoni ?. And the very same Montecristo profile is a labirinto itself.
Who really is that Montecristo and what hi did in the Italy before unification.
Luigi Vampa
ET VERBUM CARO FACTUM EST ET HABITABIT IN NOBIS
Viva Garibaldi?
Tim in the same time than Garibaldi, our personaggio emerges. Incredible his stature as a conspirator and a model that took Dumas for the profile of the Count of Montecristo. As a real person with a real action in politics is incredible that he remains obscure in history courses.
Not Pierre Picaud?
No, Pierre Picaud no. His name is very well known by his ancestors, Tim this is a game and you are in the labyrinth. Go ahead you are close. Our pesonaggio was very intriguing and clever, ruthless and brave. Maybe he could be considered one of the founders of modern revolutions.
Lindsay was right then - Napoleon. He was incarcerated on the island of Elba (not far from Montecristo). And the Napolitano heritage shouldn't surprise us.
Napoleon has his own story, very exiting because not all has been said about the play when he "dies" .Theres a lot of evidences that he was a powerfull landlord in Louisiana after his "death". No, is not Napoleon even as he was signed as the richest man on earth (Fortune magazine) and also one of the most powerfull. But not, he is another story .
Our personagge is richest, stronger, clever, famous and infamous, and very intelligent. The role that Dumas design for him in the Count of Montecristo is a frame for the power "vera efigie" from the reality. We have to remember that Dumas was a rich men, member of some secret groups, and above all a very organized writer with inmense archives and a lot of ghost writers who produce a great part of "his" opera. But the main works are the novels about history for example The Borgia family and the Medici family among other papers. The Count of Montecristo is the frame for a very delicate transmission of a paradigma and enigma.
We have the fortune to keep one of Dumas notebooks in our collection. And we study deeply his work and relations in the Second Empire in France.
Keep on the track, you are in.
JC?
Tim , JC?................FMAB!!!!!!!!
OK. So you ramble on about "vera efigie" and a new picture appears at the top of the page of our most well-known super-hero. Who else is left?
So it was Garibaldi. That's what I said three days ago. I thought you said it wasn't him. Man did I get lost in this labyrinth!
Anyway, it's been an interesting journey. The Dumas connection to Risorgimento is new to me. And I'll have to study more about Garibaldi as the model of the modern revolution.
Hope we get to talk together soon (preferably as real people).
We have a picture of St. John, holding a chalice. We have a discussion of war and rebellion about a secret revolutionary. The Carbonari obviously hold the key, but which key, to what door?
The Carbonari was the secret group. But not Garibaldi, because he was a merely puppet from Mazzini and Cavour. The name of the model that Dumas took for Count of Montecristo was Filippo Michelangelo Di Buonarroti, the first professional revolutionary. Extremly rich and powerfull and supported by the Rothschild Bank.
Tim we all are real as you are. I you go further you can find some relations with Saint John and the chalice.
Luigi Vampa (who am I?)
Tim another thing. Please be aware of the circles, the spheres, the center of the center.
Tim , we can go to the chalice and see whats inside.
ET VERBUM CARO FACTUM EST ET HABITABIT IN NOBIS
That's what I was always told was inside. We eat Christ's body, the word made manifest. It then resides in us.
OK Luigi. I'm going to guess who you (aka Conte, aka Baronesa) are - Patrick John Coppock.
Tim....are you Tim? ...
Thanks for your gentile mistake but not I'm not PJC. He is a notable scholar in the very same fields that I'am. ....Aahh...The Conte is very amusing with your presumtions...
Yes, I'm Tim. I was pretty confident you were Patrick. No? Luigi, how can I be convinced that you're not into "la mezza ... una bugia"?
And Luigi, please continue on "the word made flesh which dwells in us". I always thought that this phrase had interesting significance from a semiotic perspective. How do you interpret it?
The flesh is not real, and the word is real. Jus the real is inside and has the power of light.
Luigi:
Any chance we can continue our discussion here:
www.tedanon.com
It would be great to talk more.
Tim
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